he probably got these in nevada. it does not work as long as someone who wants a gun can go somewhere else. it's got too many holes. to you, mr. chipman, thank you for your testimony. it was very powerful. it you were an atf agent for how long? >> 24 years. >> what is the track record when it comes to persecuting federal arms licensees caught violating anti-gun trafficking laws? "they're very difficult to enforce. it is a standard willfulness verses a standard of knowing. i did not go to law school but it seems to be very problematic when you bring something the court and it's why you have to do these investigations. a this shows the problem of employee theft. in my experience, 50% of the dealers had a criminal problems had a problem with employees theft. there's a lot that the dealers can do to raise their professionalism. >> besides allowing atf to come in and do checks? >> it would be helpful. imagining a pharmacy -- we can do an inspection once a year and we cannot ever allow that. it's forbidden. >> thte amendme